IBMLink 2000 Finding ESO levels

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

Come on Sir. You're just repeating hearsay nonsense arguments. Yours
is almost as good as the one to replace the VM Toolsrun-based employee
directory by LDAP because the VM solution "required updates to be
applied to all copies of the data spread over multiple VM system"
I believe IBM set back the clock 10 years by migrating off their VM
applications internally.

for some strange reason or another, there is a ldap redbook that has
reference to some webpage of ours at garlic.com

precursor to TOOLSRUN for employee directory was CJNTEL ... posting
with old email from 1981 proposing a CJNTEL-based public key
infrastructure
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#12 more secure communication over the network

other posts with old email (from 70s & early 80s) mentioning CJNTEL
(and maybe some TOOLSRUN)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#16 intersection between autolog command and cmsback (more history)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#25 To RISC or not to RISC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#44 more secure communication over the network
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#7 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#7 information utility

then there was line told top executives that the internal network had to be converted
to SNA ... because PROFS was an VTAM application and would otherwise stop working
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#7 vmshare

concurrent with CJNTEL was the online telephone directory ... recently
mentioned here
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#32 Effi[ci]ency of branch table vs individual compare & branch

... now, of course, LDAP ... stands for lightweight directory access
protocol ... a morphing of DAP/X.500 ... part of the ISO/OSI suite of
protocols. The first time I remember hearing about X.500 was at ACM
SIGMOD conference ... i think '92 at santa clara convention center
... it was described as a bunch of networking engineers trying to
re-invent 1960s database technology. these day, most LDAPs are layered
on some RDBMS technology. for other drift, lots of past posts on
original relational/sql, System/R ... all developed on VM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#systemr

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

Post by Anne & Lynn Wheeler
then there was line told top executives that the internal network had to be converted
to SNA ... because PROFS was an VTAM application and would otherwise stop working
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#7 vmshare

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#xx IBMLink 2000 Finding ESO levels

similar but different was multiple experiences that HONE had down over the years.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone

HONE had started out on cp67 with some number of applications done in cms\apl.

apl\360 service was offered internally by the phili science center. it basically was
a os/360 based infrastructure with apl\360 having its own (sub-)monitor, terminal
support and its own workspace swapping ... i believe at the time it was 16kbyte workspaces
... although there were some places configured with 32kbyte workspaces.

the science center
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech

did a port of apl\360 to cms for cms\apl. it could get rid of everything but the actual
apl interpreter ... and workspaces could be almost as large as the cms virtual address
space ... greatly expanded the applications that could be done in apl. there were a number
of things that had to be rewritten for virtual memory environment (for instance the
way apl managed workspace storage).

for a while, the science center offerred internal cms\apl services on the cambridge machine.
one of the users were corporate hdqtrs which loaded the most sensitive corporate
information about customer installations ... for doing business modeling (in APL). a lot
of APL use back then has since migrated to spreadsheet technology.

the emerging HONE operation cloned the cambridge cp67 operation to start offering online interactive services to sales, marketing and field personnel. over the years, HONE migrated to vm370 and became the online, interactive support for sales, marketing and field personnel around the world. I would continue to provide them with custom built cp67 and then vm370 systems.

a couple past posts referencing operating my own internal operating system distribution for a large number of internal installations ... a couple recent posts mentioning the subject:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#25 DCSS as SWAP disk for z/Linux
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#26 Assembler question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#7 Why these original FORTRAN quirks?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#8 Why these original FORTRAN quirks?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#42 vmshare

including old email from 1975 ... for rel2 plc15 based system
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email750430
and old email from 1980 for rel6 plc8
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#email800429

Somewhat after the shutdown of vm370 development group in burlington mall and the tentative announcement that there would be no new vm370 releases (the whole development group was supposedly to be moved to POK to work on an internal-only VMTOOL required for supporting MVS/XA development),
the HONE organization would periodically get a new executive ... frequently "promoted" from some branch manager position. It would came as an awful shock that HONE was vm370 based operation ... especially after having been in the field and thoroughly indoctrinated that MVS provided all dataprocessing features that would anybody could ever need. They would then instruct the HONE operation that they had to convert everything to MVS platform. This would side-track nearly all of the organization for upwards of a year ... until it was proven that it couldn't be successfully ported to MVS. Then it would be quietly forgotten, the executive would be promoted and replaced by some other promotion of branch manager ... and the whole cycle would be repeated (every 2-3yrs). Since I was never actually in the HONE organization ... I could continue to do cp&cms enhancements for them.

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

Post by Anne & Lynn Wheeler
the emerging HONE operation cloned the cambridge cp67 operation to
start offering online interactive services to sales, marketing and
field personnel. over the years, HONE migrated to vm370 and became
the online, interactive support for sales, marketing and field
personnel around the world. I would continue to provide them with
custom built cp67 and then vm370 systems.

... and some old HONE and other references from around the world

Having internally published some stuff internally on HYPERChannel
... as part of the HSDT activities
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt

To: wheeler
From: somebody in Helsinki (HEKVM)
Date: 12 January 1983, 10:01:21 FIN

Greetings from Finland.

We have a customer who is planning to install VM/HPO and test MVS
under it in 4341-2. His plans include to connect the MVS with
HYPERChannel with a couple of Tandems and Honeywells. The question is
how do we generate the HYPERChannel into VM ? My best guess is
CTCA. And the second question is: any possible troubles we might have
with the HYPERChannel. I asked these question from xxxxxx and he
told me that you know best what to do.

... snip ...

similarly here with respect to VMSHARE

To: wheeler
From: from HONE userid originating someplace in KUWAIT
Date: 27 February 1983, 10:07:52 CET

Subject: vmshare

Lynn, I got very confused from the various informations I received
from XXXXXX amd YYYYYY. My customer is a new member of both SEAS and
SHARE . As they already have a link to USA , they would like to access
Tymnet and the VMSHARE data base . XXXXXX and YYYYY are only taking
care of VMSEAS . Can you help me .

... snip ...

Tymshare was providing "VMSHARE" computing conferencing to SHARE (and
SHARE members) staring in the mid-70s I started shadowing all the
files and making them available on various internal systems, including
HONE complex (and HONE clones around the world).

misc. posts mentioning HONE
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone

a few past posts mentioning pcshare:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#54 Author seeks help - net in 1981
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#2 IBM OS source code
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#3 IBM OS source code
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#14 were dumb terminals actually so dumb???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#9 It's official: "nuke" infected Windows PCs instead of fixing them
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#11 Was FORTRAN buggy?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#40 vmshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#42 vmshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#18 The History of Computer Role-Playing Games

When IBM/PC was made available, "PCSHARE" computer conferencing was added.

To: wheeler
From: Paris-La Defense;
Date: 12/14/82 11:26:36

December in Paris--Lights in the trees along the Champs Elysee

Dear Lynn:

I feel like I must have been off somewhere with my head in the clouds,
but I hadn't heard about PCSHARE until yesterday, when a friend
pointed it out as being on the Uithoorn HONE system. I knew about
IBMPC 193 and 194 on YKTVMV and the PCLIB system at Endicott of
XXXXXX, but even though I was at the PC Symposium at Yorktown a couple
of months ago, I never heard it mentioned previously.

I maintain the PC disks on our EHQ system here, mostly with stuff from
Yorktown and Endicott, with a few oddballs I get from here and there.
I would like to somehow set up the PCSHARE system here, but see there
are an awful lot of files, and they are obviously being appended to
constantly. I don't want to add that many files to our PC disk, since
it would greatly confuse things I think. I guess I'll have to set up
another disk. Do you have any system set up to properly use it if I
do? I suspose that it's on the HONE system disk, but too many files
to really recognize what's what, and guess I need a little tutorial.

I have sent for a CMS EXEC list of the files on PCSHARE 294 on SJRLVM4
using DATASTAG, so guess that is the right way to get them. But how
do I keep up to date without a lot of work once I bring the files in?
Thanks for any light you can provide on PCSHARE.

Salutations distinguees et bien Cordialement
le bonjour de Paris chez vous!

... snip ...

To: wheeler
From: Paris-La Defense;
Date: 12/17/82 14:58:46

Dear Lynn:

DATASTAG (wonderful invention) has kindly sent me all of the
items on the SJRLVM1 PCSHARE disk, for which the last and largest
items are just straggling in from a request 24 hours ago. I therefore
don't think I need an initial distribution of it, but do want to get
on the distribution list for changes/updates in the future, since I
will maintain it here for our users.

You used to send me updated CMS EXEC's of the VMSHARE files, but
not the actual files. Since that doesn't do our users here much good,
I would like to do the same thing for the VMSHARE files. Can you
point me to your VMSHARE files, I can order them myself, but also want
to be on the distribution for them in the future as well.

Salutations distinguees et bien Cordialement
le bonjour de Paris chez vous!

... snip ...

other old email mentioning VMSHARE (&/or PCSHARE):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#vmshare

DATASTAG was sort of a ftp/anonomous facility ... past refs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#22 vmshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#7 information utility

As an aside ... the email originated at EHQVM1 in La Defense. In the
early 70s, when EMEA moved from White Plains to Paris, I went over to
install the system as part of the move. misc. past posts mentioning
that move:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#149 OS/360 (and descendents) VM system?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#43 Withdrawal Announcement 901-218 - No More 'small machines'
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#30 OS Workloads : Interactive etc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#67 history of CMS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#58 Oldest running code
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#7 IBM operating systems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#25 System/360 40th Anniversary
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004n.html#37 passing of iverson
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#31 NEC drives
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005.html#13 Amusing acronym
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#29 IBM Plugs Big Iron to the College Crowd
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#34 Not enough parallelism in programming
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006k.html#8 Arpa address
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006k.html#34 PDP-1
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006o.html#6 Article on Painted Post, NY
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006o.html#11 Article on Painted Post, NY
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006p.html#35 Metroliner telephone article

There were also the various internal TOOLSRUN-based computer
conferences (VMTOOLS, PCTOOLS, PCLIB, etc. misc. posts mentioning
TOOSLRUN:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#5 what makes a cpu fast
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#33 LISTSERV(r) on mainframes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#18 MVS 3.8
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#48 Integer types for 128-bit addressing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#5 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005r.html#22 z/VM Listserv?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#9 It's official: "nuke" infected Windows PCs instead of fixing them
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#11 Was FORTRAN buggy?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#16 Was FORTRAN buggy?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#35 Top versus bottom posting was Re: IBM sues maker of Intel-based Mainframe clones
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#10 Why so little parallelism?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#23 How to write a full-screen Rexx debugger?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#7 information utility
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#31 IBMLink 2000 Finding ESO levels
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#32 IBMLink 2000 Finding ESO levels


lots of past posts mentioning vmshare:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#29 IBM Reference cards.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#54 Author seeks help - net in 1981
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#89 TSS/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#73 Coulda, Woulda, Shoudda moments?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#64 history of CMS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#44 Unisys A11 worth keeping?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#3 HONE, Aid, misc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#28 ibm history note from vmshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#29 mailing list history from vmshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#75 30th b'day
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#20 Vnet : Unbelievable
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#21 Vnet : Unbelievable
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#42 MVS 3.8J and NJE via CTC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#10 What is microcode?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#13 Help! Good protocol for national ID card?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#25 Early computer games
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#2 IBM OS source code
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#3 IBM OS source code
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#7 myths about Multics
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#23 Free Desktop Cyber emulation on PC before Christmas
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#24 Vector display systems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#53 MVS History
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#66 History of project maintenance tools -- what and when?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#75 History of project maintenance tools -- what and when?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#76 History of project maintenance tools -- what and when?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#2 History of project maintenance tools -- what and when?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#58 40th Anniversary of IBM System/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#39 Calculations involing very large decimals
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003k.html#50 Slashdot: O'Reilly On The Importance Of The Mainframe Heritage
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#4 IBM Manuals from the 1940's and 1950's
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003n.html#47 What makes a mainframe a mainframe?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#36 CHECKSUM CHALLENGE - (US$ 100)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#60 Paging
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#20 REXX still going strong after 25 years
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#14 were dumb terminals actually so dumb???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#23 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#31 Usage of Hex Dump
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#38 Adventure
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#49 Xah Lee's Unixism
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#51 Xah Lee's Unixism
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#18 FW: Looking for Disk Calc program/Exec
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#26 CTSS source online
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#50 EAL5
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#40 Facilities "owned" by MVS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#48 Integer types for 128-bit addressing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#49 Integer types for 128-bit addressing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#5 History of C
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#13 Mainframe Virus ????
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#16 Mainframe Virus ????
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#21 need a firewall
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#28 IBM 3705 and UC.5
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#37 IBM 3614 and 3624 ATM's
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005.html#54 creat
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005.html#58 Foreign key in Oracle Sql
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005b.html#0 8086 memory space
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005g.html#24 DOS/360: Forty years
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005k.html#18 Question about Dungeon game on the PDP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#45 Anyone know whether VM/370 EDGAR is still available anywhere?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#38 SHARE reflections
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#28 Canon Cat for Sale
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005r.html#5 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#25 Fast action games on System/360+?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#58 Command reference for VM/370 CMS Editor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#39 another blast from the past
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006d.html#2 IBM 610 workstation computer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#9 It's official: "nuke" infected Windows PCs instead of fixing them
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#3 Not Your Dad's Mainframe: Little Iron
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006p.html#29 Greatest Software Ever Written?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#11 Was FORTRAN buggy?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#37 REAL memory column in SDSF
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#43 REAL memory column in SDSF
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#65 Paranoia..Paranoia..Am I on the right track?.. any help please?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#22 vmshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#30 vmshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#34 vmshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#38 vmshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#40 vmshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#16 intersection between autolog command and cmsback (more history)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#25 To RISC or not to RISC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#42 vmshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#48 vmshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#52 IBM sues maker of Intel-based Mainframe clones
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#6 Multics on Vmware ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#7 vmshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#8 vmshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#19 The Future of CPUs: What's After Multi-Core?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#33 NSFNET (long post warning)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#7 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#11 Multiple mappings
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#14 Why so little parallelism?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#18 The History of Computer Role-Playing Games
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#19 The History of Computer Role-Playing Games
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#29 "The Elements of Programming Style"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#35 The Future of CPUs: What's After Multi-Core?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#14 vm/sp1
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#19 NSFNET (long post warning)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#25 The History of Computer Role-Playing Games
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#4 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#5 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#7 information utility
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#9 Mainframe vs. "Server" (Was Just another example of mainframe
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#14 Just another example of mainframe costs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#31 IBMLink 2000 Finding ESO levels
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#32 IBMLink 2000 Finding ESO levels
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#46 'Innovation' and other crimes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#48 6400 impact printer

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#55 IBMLink 2000 Finding ESO levels

other ancient HONE references:

From: wheeler
To: east coast
Date: 02/16/79 16:24:41

would you pass on to YYYYYY. HONE people have been led to understand
that they should start working on converting to MVS since there will
not be any more VM for the high end. specific details started at CCDN
task force meeting (which some HONE people belong) got a presentation
from XXXXXX (they were not sure of the spelling), DP Product Group
POK. VM remains stategic for low end, but there will definitly not be
any for the high end. HONE were told by same that they could solve
their MVS performance problems by rewritting all their VSAPL
application code in assembler.

... snip ..

From: wheeler
To: distribution
Date: 02/20/79 15:41:25

VM project office has been active on file I sent out. XXXXXX may
have been using the wrong set of flip charts when he made his
presentation and steps are being taken to

1) assure HONE that nothing of the sort is intended

and

2) make sure that it is not repeated

... snip ...

I have some vague recollection that XXXXXX had been in charge of the
resource manager component of FS ... and in old discussions with that
group, telling them that I thot what i had already impelemented for
dynamic adaptive resource management was better than what they were
spec'ing for FS. misc. past posts mentioning future system project
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#futuresys

This scenario about HONE having to convert to MVS was just one
in a long series ... relatively recent related post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006o.html#53 The Fate of VM - was: Re: Baby MVS????

HONE provided vm370-based, online, interactive service for world-wide
sales, marketing and field people. HONE had started out with clone of
the science center's cp67 and then later converted to vm370 ... and
eventually HONE clones started popping up all over the world.

One of HONE (apl) major applications were the configurators which
basically filled out the sales order. Mainframe orders typically
required complex combination of options and features (with lots of
interdependencies) dependent on specific customer configurations.

Over 15yr period, I provided HONE custom built cp67 and then vm370
systems, I even got to personally install some of the clones.
misc. past posts mentioning HONE
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone