Discussion:
Tape conversions
(too old to reply)
Stephen Frazier
2006-02-06 22:34:24 UTC
Permalink
I use DITTO to copy tapes.

***@wellsfargo.com wrote:

> What do folks do about moving old VM:Backup and old HIDRO tapes to new
> media types? We have a bunch that are supposed to move from IBM 3590
> to STK 9480C and the media types are different and CA doesn't support
> moving them. I suggest we just leave 1 drive, but HW manager doesn't
> like that at all…
>
>
>
> Marcy Cortes
> (415) 243-6343
>
> “This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
> If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the
> addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on
> this message or any information herein. If you have received this
> message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail
> and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation."
>
>

--
Stephen Frazier
Information Technology Unit
Oklahoma Department of Corrections
3400 Martin Luther King
Oklahoma City, Ok, 73111-4298
Tel.: (405) 425-2549
Fax: (405) 425-2554
Pager: (405) 690-1828
email: stevef%doc.state.ok.us
Schmiedge, Ronald
2006-02-06 22:39:02 UTC
Permalink
Marcy,

I had an issue open with CA about this last month. I was told HIDRO
would copy backups between different media, but not VMBACKUP by itself.
Since we have never gone beyond old VMBACKUP, that answer didn't help
me.
I want to put the data on new tapes with new volsers, and have VMBACKUP
know about it, so copying everything including the volser doesn't help
my new tape library, and putting the data on a new tape without VMBACKUP
knowing the new volser means VMBACKUP is no longer accurate.
Since my "keep forever" tapes are relatively few I plan on restoring and
backing up to new media. I should be able to restore it, if I can't, the
backup isn't much use and I don't need to worry about converting the
tape right? :-) That project is not quite ready to start.

Ron

________________________________

From: VM/ESA and z/VM Discussions [mailto:VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU] On
Behalf Of Marcy Cortes
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 4:25 PM
To: VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Tape conversions



What do folks do about moving old VM:Backup and old HIDRO tapes to new
media types? We have a bunch that are supposed to move from IBM 3590
to STK 9480C and the media types are different and CA doesn't support
moving them. I suggest we just leave 1 drive, but HW manager doesn't
like that at all...



Marcy Cortes
(415) 243-6343

"This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the
addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on
this message or any information herein. If you have received this
message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail
and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation."
Imler, Steven J
2006-02-06 23:06:41 UTC
Permalink
Marcy,

The HiDRO tapes can be migrated to the new media using the HiDRO
DUPLICATE command. It's not a problem to go many-to-few (3490s to 3590s
for example) or few-to-many. If necessary, you can use the HiDRO VERIFY
command to update the HiDRO catalog with the accurate information for
each backup set on the new media.

As you mentioned, this is generally not possible to do with VM:Backup
data. The media and volsers of the backup tapes/images can not be
changed, so the only time this is really useful is when you actually
have a bad tape you want to replace it with a new one; then throw away
or destroy the bad copy. We have had some customers duplicate physical
IBM 3490 cartridges to virtual IBM 3490 VTS tapes. However, the rules
remain the same ... the volsers can not change and each input tape must
fit on the single new/replacement output tape (this is sometimes a
problem ... for some reason there always seems to be a [very] small
percentage of physical 3490 tapes that will not fit on a virtual 3490
tape).

JR

JR (Steven) Imler
CA
Senior Software Engineer
Tel: +1 703 708 3479
Fax: +1 703 708 3267
***@ca.com <mailto:***@ca.com>

________________________________

From: VM/ESA and z/VM Discussions [mailto:VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU] On
Behalf Of Marcy Cortes
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 05:25 PM
To: VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Tape conversions



What do folks do about moving old VM:Backup and old HIDRO tapes to new
media types? We have a bunch that are supposed to move from IBM 3590
to STK 9480C and the media types are different and CA doesn't support
moving them. I suggest we just leave 1 drive, but HW manager doesn't
like that at all...



Marcy Cortes
(415) 243-6343

"This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the
addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on
this message or any information herein. If you have received this
message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail
and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation."
Jim Bohnsack
2006-02-07 02:13:00 UTC
Permalink
I have the same problem except that we need to keep a couple 3480 drives
around for sending out 3480 cartridges. Other than that, my VMBACKUP media
has been on 3590's since the middle of 2004. I have some old yearly
backups that will expire either this summer or a year from this summer, but
until then, I will still have a dependency on 3480's.

With the changes in commonly used tape media and hardware over the last
15?? years or whatever it has been that VM:Backup has been around, it seems
to me that CA or Sterling or one of the predecessor companies surely must
have realized the need for this SMOP (Simple Matter Of Programming).

Jim

At 06:06 PM 2/6/2006, you wrote:
>Marcy,
>
>The HiDRO tapes can be migrated to the new media using the HiDRO DUPLICATE
>command. It's not a problem to go many-to-few (3490s to 3590s for
>example) or few-to-many. If necessary, you can use the HiDRO VERIFY
>command to update the HiDRO catalog with the accurate information for each
>backup set on the new media.
>
>As you mentioned, this is generally not possible to do with VM:Backup
>data. The media and volsers of the backup tapes/images can not be
>changed, so the only time this is really useful is when you actually have
>a bad tape you want to replace it with a new one; then throw away or
>destroy the bad copy. We have had some customers duplicate physical IBM
>3490 cartridges to virtual IBM 3490 VTS tapes. However, the rules remain
>the same ... the volsers can not change and each input tape must fit on
>the single new/replacement output tape (this is sometimes a problem ...
>for some reason there always seems to be a [very] small percentage of
>physical 3490 tapes that will not fit on a virtual 3490 tape).
>
>JR
>
>JR (Steven) Imler
>CA
>Senior Software Engineer
>Tel: +1 703 708 3479
>Fax: +1 703 708 3267
><mailto:***@ca.com>***@ca.com
>
>
>----------
>From: VM/ESA and z/VM Discussions [mailto:VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU] On
>Behalf Of Marcy Cortes
>Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 05:25 PM
>To: VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
>Subject: Tape conversions
>
>What do folks do about moving old VM:Backup and old HIDRO tapes to new
>media types? We have a bunch that are supposed to move from IBM 3590 to
>STK 9480C and the media types are different and CA doesn't support moving
>them. I suggest we just leave 1 drive, but HW manager doesn't like that
>at all…
>
>
>Marcy Cortes
>(415) 243-6343
>
>“This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If
>you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee,
>you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message
>or any information herein. If you have received this message in error,
>please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this
>message. Thank you for your cooperation."

Jim Bohnsack
Cornell Univ.
(607) 255-1760
Schuh, Richard
2006-02-07 17:46:56 UTC
Permalink
Mike,

What the stopping and restarting of the tape did was to slow down the process, not waste space by inserting gaps. In the good old days, the IRGs were there between the records regardless of the starting and stopping of the tape. A File Mark was recognized by the h/w because of an extremely long gap that was followed by a specific block of data. The space left by the stop/start was short enough that the h/w counted it as an IRG and did not prime itself to look for the file mark.


Regards,
Richard Schuh

-----Original Message-----
From: VM/ESA and z/VM Discussions [mailto:VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Walter
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 8:36 AM
To: VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: Tape conversions

Marcy,

Back in the "bad old days" I wrote a VMBRECR8 EXEC which can be used to
"recreate" missing VM:Backup tapes with the proper internal tape chaining.
However it ran into a problem when copying from tapes that were full,
because to make the required changes to the volsers from the good tape
onto the output "COPYn" tape, it has to read the input tape's SLs and User
Header Labels, build the appropriate replacement User Header labels and
write them to the new output tape. That means stopping the output tape
repeatedly while preparing the new output labels - each time introducing
inter-record gaps which take up physical space on the tape. Just enough
space that a full input tape will usually not quite fit onto a new output
tape.

But... if you are copying VM:Backup tapes to a higher density media
one-for-one, then VMBRECR8 EXEC might work for you. OTOH, it won't update
the records in the VM:Backup with the new tape density since this is all
done completely outside of VM:Backup. Editing the catalog *could* be
done, but you'd probably want to work with CA on that issue. :-)

The syntax for VMBRECR8 is:

---<snip>---
VMBRECR8 ?

VMBACKUP is used to create tapes from the nightly VM DASD backups, and
also perform the tape I/O and TWINing for VM:Archiver service machines.

VMBRECR8 is used to create valid copies of tapes created by VMBACKUP
in cases where one tape becomes damaged or lost. It requires that
the volser of the lost or damaged tape, and the volser of the
corresponding VM:Backup COPY. Lots of damaged VM:Archiver tapes can
be re-created by running a Merge/Purge request.

The good tape should be mounted on virtual 181, and the tape to be
re-created on virtual 182 before executing this command.

Note:
Each tape written by VMBACKUP has internal pointers to the tape
before and after it, as well as volsers of the first tape in
each VM:Backup stream in the backup job.

Simply COPYing a VMBACKUP-created tape and changing the VOL1
WILL NOT WORK!
+-FROM-+
>>-VMBRECR8--+-Sibling(lost/damaged)Vol-+--+------+-------------------->

>-----------+-Input(good)Vol-+---------------------------------------->


>--+-----------------------------------------------------------------+><
+-(-+---------------------------------+--+------------------------+
+-SiblingPrevVol--SiblingNextvol--+ +-)--NOWARN--DEBUG--RPT--+

Where:

SiblingVol
is the BAD or missing VM:Backup tape (also known as the COPY
tape).

InputVol
is the GOOD Onsite or Offsite VM:Backup tape.

Options:

If the tape is chained in the TMC, the SiblingPrevVol and SiblingNextVol
are not needed, as that information will be obtained from VM:Tape.

SiblingPrevVol
is the previous volume in the chain (if any) of the Sibling.

SiblingNextVol
is the next volume in the chain (if any) of the Sibling.


PostOptions:


NOWARN
prevents display of a warning message when the VMBRECR8 command
completes.

DEBUG
do not erase "VMBRECR8 CMSUTx" work files when exiting.
There contain the re-built Standard Labels as written to the
output (SiblingVol) tape, where "x" is the physical file number
(i.e. SL 1 HDR=1, SL1 TLR=3, SL2 HDR=4).

RPT
check VMBACKUP catalog for tape copy number and stream info.
Does not require tapes to be mounted, but chaining is required
in the TMC.

Example:

E.g. where 200000 is damaged and 712345 was the Sibling as known to
VM:Backup or VM:Archiver as the COPY tape.

VMBRECR8 200000 712345
---<snip>---

Maybe this could be used as an inspiration for something you write to meet
your particular needs? Just ask for a copy.

Mike Walter
Hewitt Associates
The opinions expressed herein are mine alone, not my employer's.



"Marcy Cortes" <***@wellsfargo.com>

Sent by: "VM/ESA and z/VM Discussions" <VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU>
02/06/2006 08:52 PM
Please respond to
"VM/ESA and z/VM Discussions" <VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU>



To
VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
cc

Subject
Re: Tape conversions






DITTO is not going to understand all the volume chaining in the
VM:Backup tapes. Only something that understood that is going to do the
trick.


Marcy Cortes
(415) 243-6343

"This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the
addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on
this message or any information herein. If you have received this
message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail
and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation."


-----Original Message-----
From: VM/ESA and z/VM Discussions [mailto:VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU] On
Behalf Of Stephen Frazier
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 2:34 PM
To: VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: [VMESA-L] Tape conversions

I use DITTO to copy tapes.

***@wellsfargo.com wrote:

> What do folks do about moving old VM:Backup and old HIDRO tapes to new

> media types? We have a bunch that are supposed to move from IBM 3590

> to STK 9480C and the media types are different and CA doesn't support
> moving them. I suggest we just leave 1 drive, but HW manager
doesn't
> like that at all...
>
>
>
> Marcy Cortes
> (415) 243-6343
>
> "This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information.

> If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the
> addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based
> on this message or any information herein. If you have received this
> message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail

> and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation."
>
>

--
Stephen Frazier
Information Technology Unit
Oklahoma Department of Corrections
3400 Martin Luther King
Oklahoma City, Ok, 73111-4298
Tel.: (405) 425-2549
Fax: (405) 425-2554
Pager: (405) 690-1828
email: stevef%doc.state.ok.us





The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited.
Tom Duerbusch
2006-02-07 21:24:55 UTC
Permalink
Duh

Imagine that. Not being able to copy a full 3490E (1.2 GB) to a 3480E
(200 MB) cart.

Do you have your cart types reversed?

You should always be able to copy a 3480 to a 3490.

Tom Duerbusch
THD Consulting

>>> ***@hewitt.com 2/7/2006 1:24 PM >>>
Richard,

I was never able to copy a full 3490E cart to a even brand new 3480E
cart.
Each time the output tape filled up before we got to the end, I
presumed
because of the inter-record gaps.

I seem to remember reading various posts and articles over the years
indicating that there is a physical gap on the tape whenever writing
starts again after a pause. What you say may be true, but anecdotal
evidence indicates otherwise. Why else did every single attempt to
copy
a full tape to a new or used cart of the same size fail?

Mike Walter
Hewitt Associates
The opinions expressed herein are mine alone, not my employer's.



"Schuh, Richard" <***@visa.com>

Sent by: "VM/ESA and z/VM Discussions" <VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU>
02/07/2006 11:46 AM
Please respond to
"VM/ESA and z/VM Discussions" <VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU>



To
VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
cc

Subject
Re: Tape conversions






Mike,

What the stopping and restarting of the tape did was to slow down the
process, not waste space by inserting gaps. In the good old days, the
IRGs
were there between the records regardless of the starting and stopping
of
the tape. A File Mark was recognized by the h/w because of an extremely

long gap that was followed by a specific block of data. The space left
by
the stop/start was short enough that the h/w counted it as an IRG and
did
not prime itself to look for the file mark.


Regards,
Richard Schuh

-----Original Message-----
From: VM/ESA and z/VM Discussions
[mailto:VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Walter
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 8:36 AM
To: VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: Tape conversions

Marcy,

Back in the "bad old days" I wrote a VMBRECR8 EXEC which can be used to

"recreate" missing VM:Backup tapes with the proper internal tape
chaining.

However it ran into a problem when copying from tapes that were full,

because to make the required changes to the volsers from the good tape

onto the output "COPYn" tape, it has to read the input tape's SLs and
User

Header Labels, build the appropriate replacement User Header labels and

write them to the new output tape. That means stopping the output tape

repeatedly while preparing the new output labels - each time
introducing
inter-record gaps which take up physical space on the tape. Just
enough
space that a full input tape will usually not quite fit onto a new
output
tape.

But... if you are copying VM:Backup tapes to a higher density media
one-for-one, then VMBRECR8 EXEC might work for you. OTOH, it won't
update

the records in the VM:Backup with the new tape density since this is
all
done completely outside of VM:Backup. Editing the catalog *could* be

done, but you'd probably want to work with CA on that issue. :-)

The syntax for VMBRECR8 is:

---<snip>---
VMBRECR8 ?

VMBACKUP is used to create tapes from the nightly VM DASD backups, and

also perform the tape I/O and TWINing for VM:Archiver service machines.


VMBRECR8 is used to create valid copies of tapes created by VMBACKUP
in cases where one tape becomes damaged or lost. It requires that
the volser of the lost or damaged tape, and the volser of the
corresponding VM:Backup COPY. Lots of damaged VM:Archiver tapes can
be re-created by running a Merge/Purge request.

The good tape should be mounted on virtual 181, and the tape to be
re-created on virtual 182 before executing this command.

Note:
Each tape written by VMBACKUP has internal pointers to the tape
before and after it, as well as volsers of the first tape in
each VM:Backup stream in the backup job.

Simply COPYing a VMBACKUP-created tape and changing the VOL1
WILL NOT WORK!
+-FROM-+
>>-VMBRECR8--+-Sibling(lost/damaged)Vol-+--+------+-------------------->



>-----------+-Input(good)Vol-+---------------------------------------->



>--+-----------------------------------------------------------------+><

+-(-+---------------------------------+--+------------------------+

+-SiblingPrevVol--SiblingNextvol--+ +-)--NOWARN--DEBUG--RPT--+


Where:

SiblingVol
is the BAD or missing VM:Backup tape (also known as the COPY
tape).

InputVol
is the GOOD Onsite or Offsite VM:Backup tape.

Options:

If the tape is chained in the TMC, the SiblingPrevVol and
SiblingNextVol
are not needed, as that information will be obtained from VM:Tape.

SiblingPrevVol
is the previous volume in the chain (if any) of the Sibling.

SiblingNextVol
is the next volume in the chain (if any) of the Sibling.


PostOptions:


NOWARN
prevents display of a warning message when the VMBRECR8
command
completes.

DEBUG
do not erase "VMBRECR8 CMSUTx" work files when exiting.
There contain the re-built Standard Labels as written to the
output (SiblingVol) tape, where "x" is the physical file
number
(i.e. SL 1 HDR=1, SL1 TLR=3, SL2 HDR=4).

RPT
check VMBACKUP catalog for tape copy number and stream info.
Does not require tapes to be mounted, but chaining is required

in the TMC.

Example:

E.g. where 200000 is damaged and 712345 was the Sibling as known to
VM:Backup or VM:Archiver as the COPY tape.

VMBRECR8 200000 712345
---<snip>---

Maybe this could be used as an inspiration for something you write to
meet

your particular needs? Just ask for a copy.

Mike Walter
Hewitt Associates
The opinions expressed herein are mine alone, not my employer's.



"Marcy Cortes" <***@wellsfargo.com>

Sent by: "VM/ESA and z/VM Discussions" <VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU>
02/06/2006 08:52 PM
Please respond to
"VM/ESA and z/VM Discussions" <VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU>



To
VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
cc

Subject
Re: Tape conversions






DITTO is not going to understand all the volume chaining in the
VM:Backup tapes. Only something that understood that is going to do
the
trick.


Marcy Cortes
(415) 243-6343

"This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the
addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based
on
this message or any information herein. If you have received this
message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail
and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation."


-----Original Message-----
From: VM/ESA and z/VM Discussions [mailto:VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU]
On
Behalf Of Stephen Frazier
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 2:34 PM
To: VMESA-***@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: [VMESA-L] Tape conversions

I use DITTO to copy tapes.

***@wellsfargo.com wrote:

> What do folks do about moving old VM:Backup and old HIDRO tapes to
new

> media types? We have a bunch that are supposed to move from IBM
3590

> to STK 9480C and the media types are different and CA doesn't support

> moving them. I suggest we just leave 1 drive, but HW manager
doesn't
> like that at all...
>
>
>
> Marcy Cortes
> (415) 243-6343
>
> "This message may contain confidential and/or privileged
information.

> If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the
> addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based

> on this message or any information herein. If you have received this

> message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply
e-mail

> and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation."
>
>

--
Stephen Frazier
Information Technology Unit
Oklahoma Department of Corrections
3400 Martin Luther King
Oklahoma City, Ok, 73111-4298
Tel.: (405) 425-2549
Fax: (405) 425-2554
Pager: (405) 690-1828
email: stevef%doc.state.ok.us





The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents

may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected
from
disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or
if
this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately
alert
the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any

attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the
contents
of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly

prohibited.





The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents
may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from
disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if
this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately
alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including
any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the
contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is
strictly prohibited.
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